Rejuvenating petty officer leadership courses. Leading a better behaved chief's mess. Supervising professional and tough chief's season training. And sketching out what could be eventually a wholly new working uniform for fleet wear. Now into his third year as Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy, Mike Stevens sat down with Navy Times to answer questions about what he's working on — and what his focus will be for the rest of his time wearing three enlisted stars.

And his plate is full, but he's not afraid to tackle it with all he's got..

Those are the focal points for Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (AW/NAC) Mike Stevens' focuses as he enters his third year on the job. Stevens says he's not looking back, especially at his controversial decision two years ago to end chief's induction — and the shenanigans that came with it. Both lauded and vilified for his changes to the CPO-365 training process where he sought to make a final break both in policy and symbolism by moving chief's season away from what started with initiation that has now become a professional training process that's no less challenging than what came before it.

He says the year-round CPO-365 training that replaced it is yielding big dividends, including sharply reduced misconduct and hazing among chiefs.

"Admiral [Jon] Greenert told me when I first got on the job, he says "MCPON be bold, be accountable", Stevens told Navy Times March 10. "I've always believed that leadership matters, but it matters the most when it's hard," Stevens told Navy Times in a wide-ranging March 10 sit-down interview. and it matters the most when it's hard and you got to make hard decisions. "And when you believe in what you're doing and it's for the right reasons, you have to be able to weather the storm."

In some ways, he's says he's already made the toughest decisions of his tenure up front with his reforms to chief's training as now, it comes to CPO-365 chief's training, he's done with any big changes and wants to let the process settle out, believing it will still take a bit more time to fully weave itself into the Navy's fabric.

But, he says the tough decisions he and those who came before him had to make — as well as the extensive year-round CPO-365 training — is now yielding a downward trend in misconduct for E-7s and above misconduct, which he closely tracks.

Stevens is helping drive the And he's not got much more on his plate as part of the Navy's search for a new working uniform for those at sea, which could be a better fitting, long-term solution to the flame-resistant coveralls that many sailors gripe about. and finding the long-term solution for replacing the temporary and arguably less than adequate FRV coveralls with a permanent solution that sailors will like.

He's also working to start up a train the trainers course for Based on his believe in leadership and leadership training, he's now tackling the command delivered leadership training every petty officer goes through in an effort to re-energize the deckplates. get re-energized through providing commands with training in how to give it.

'Hybrid' coveralls, flight suit

When Stevens started, he said his focus was to finishing uniform initiatives underway, rather than introducing new ones. came into office, he said that he would not consider any new uniform initiatives until the plethora of underway changes had worked their way through the system and were either adopted or eliminated. Months later came But with the revelations just months after he took office that the Navy working uniform Type I was flammable and unsuitable for shipboard use, and his focus changed.

150309-N-SX614-216 YOKOSUKA, Japan (March 9, 2015) Boatswain's Mate 2nd Class James Goodin, assigned to the U.S. 7th Fleet flagship USS Blue Ridge (LCC 19), calls to station the sea and anchor detail over the ship's announcing system. Blue Ridge is underway conducting unit level training to assess the crew on damage control, force protection, and seamanship in preparation for upcoming patrols in the U.S. 7th Fleet area of responsibility. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Cody R. Babin/Released)

Fleet Forces Command plans to wear test two improved versions of the flame-resistant variant coverall rushed to the fleet two years ago. Boatswain's Mate 2nd Class James Goodin wears the FRV coverall while calling the sea and anchor detail March 9 on amphibious command ship Blue Ridge.

Photo Credit: MC3 Cody Babin, U.S. Navy

Stevens is now working with He's now actively involved along with Fleet Forces Command and Chief of Naval Personnel Vice Adm. Bill Moran on discussing the future of the Navy's seabag — and specifically the future of the working uniform at sea.

All sides have heard sailors' complaints about the flame-resistant variant coveralls, fast-tracked to the fleet in the wake of the NWU fire risk revelations. Those complaints include: zipper track problems, shrinking and fading after washes, breathability, fit and more.He's heard the complaints about the FRV coveralls being issued to sailors today about how the FRV shrinks and fades, it's uncomfortable to some and there's problems with the zippers, he said.

He reminds them that The FRV coveralls are only a temporary fix to address the situation. an off-the-shelf purchaseadaptable to the Navy, Stevens said, and now they're working on a longer-term solution. . The plan all along was to also work on a long-term coverall solution.

So you could look at that as a test; so it got a C minus, right, maybe a C?" Stevens said. "So the leadership said, 'Okay' as we move into another round of this…let's see if we can't get something that's a little bit better."

Because the FRV are considered "organizational clothing" which is command issued clothing and not seabag items, The current development of this organizational clothing uniform is being handled by the damage control experts at FFC,leet Forces command and they're set to have wear tests starting this summer, Stevens said.

"They've got a couple of versions that they're getting ready to roll out here to see which ones the sailors like best," Stevens said. "One of them is a flight suit-like design and the other one is more of a standard coverall design."

Stevens and other Navy leaders have also been canvassing sailors for their thoughts on a new underway and working uniform, and are developing sketches for what that might be. And though he's got ideas what sailors would like in a new coverall, he said nothing will get done until after these tests are done.

"When CNO [Adm. Jon Greenert] and I were out in 5th Fleet and we were doing an all hands call, we started talking to sailors, or they started talking to us, about uniforms," Stevens said. "So we brought a sailor up with FRVs, we brought a sailor up that was wearing a flight suit, and we kind of built in their minds a virtual uniform."

This design virtual uniform was brainstormeddeveloped by asking sailors about the features of each uniform and what of those they liked. Stevens took notes and upon returning to Washington, had commissioned an artist's conception of this potential new uniform.

" 'What if you took some components of this flight suit and some components of this FRV and you made a hybrid and you brought it together,' " Stevens recalled asking said he asked the sailors. "Overwhelmingly the sailors raised their hands and said, 'We would like something like that.' But let me be clear … all I have right now is an artist's rendition of that and it's not circulated, it's in my office."

Stevens says discussions about designing this new fleet uniform will come only after the FFC tests of updated FRV coveralls. Only after the the proposed FFC tests are done and the feedback could their fleet brainstorm idea possible take flight.

"We've got to let this FRV wear test play out, because that will tell us a lot in itself," he said.

Improved leadership training

One of Stevens' foremost prioritiesd is focuses in improving leadership training for sailors and chiefs. main initiatives since taking office is what he calls developing leaders and along with it leadership training, something he sees as very important to the fleet and the sailors in it.

140529-N-MW280-091 MEDITERRANEAN SEA (May 29, 2014) Third class petty officers take part in group discussion during the Petty Officer Second Class Selectee Leadership Course aboard the multipurpose amphibious assault ship USS Bataan (LHD 5). Bataan is the flagship for the Bataan Amphibious Ready Group and, with the embarked 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit, is deployed in support of maritime security operations and theater security cooperation efforts in the U.S. 6th Fleet area of responsibility. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Chase Hawley/Released)

Third class petty officers hold a group discussion during May 2014 petty officer leadership training aboard amphibious assault ship Bataan. The Navy's enlisted leader wants to improve these leadership courses by starting a course to train the trainers.

Photo Credit: MC3 Chase Hawley/Navy

And he's a big advocate of the command delivered leadership training that sailors must complete after they're selected, but before they are frocked or advanced to the next paygrade. A decade ago that training was given in school houses around the fleet and leadership declared the training mandatory and set a deadline by which sailors had to be trained or they couldn't compete for advancement.

In discussions with the fleet, the Navy leadership handed the training over to commands. It was still mandatory, but only had to be completed before the sailor actually advanced. But over the past few years, Navy Times queries showed that the training databases commands were mandated ender completion data showed tens of thousands of sailors as not having the training.

Last year, in an effort to reduce administrative burden the reporting requirement was eliminated altogether by Chief of Naval Personnel Bill Moran. Stevens agreed with the decision because he feels most in the fleet are complying with the regulation.

"I've always believed for a long time that the large vast majority of our commands are doing the training because I would go out and talk to them and I'd say 'Hey I'm showing that your [database3] reporting is like 40%" and then as you peel back the layers you find out they're doing the training," he said.

"I agreed with this empirical data because I was out talking with sailors and commands. And they led me to believe based on the conversations with not just the leadership but with the sailors in the command that they were doing it.

But Stevens would like to see the petty officer leadership training, which a decade ago was led in a school house, revitalized. He and has started an effort to help commands get better qualify instructors to give this training. people to give the training — a key, he says to making sailors pay attention and learn.

"Where we fell short is in that, when we said we're going to give the commands the training, we said we would also provide a train the trainer program to support it, which hasn't materialized," Stevens said, "which is what I'm working on now."

What Stevens envisions is an official instructor course that teaches trainers from each command how to give informative, interactive leadership lessons. They can then go back to their commands and teach others. to teach command trainers how to facilitate the course properly to get the effect the Navy wants.

"The Navy is too big to think you can send people from all over the world to one or two places and get this training," Stevens said. "So I think the best way to do it is have a site where you can train some initial -- you know initial teams of people, let them go to their commands and plant the seed and then train others within their command," he said.

"I don't think the training is that bad, it could use some work and some updates and what have you. But if you give [sailors] the right amount of time with the right people, it doesn't matter if you're doing it in some building somewhere or if you're doing it on board your ship or in the squadron spaces — it's not where the training is being done."

Chiefs & misconduct

Stevens, like has been big on accountability as was MCPON (SS/SW) Rick West before him, has insisted on accountability for chiefs and especially command master chiefs, a move that started after a rise in misconduct six years ago. But in late 2009, a rise in misconduct among chief petty officers got West to sit up and notice — and he started tracking it. He also worked with Navy leadership to tighten regulations making it easier for commanders to relieve a chief. The service instituted a continuation board for retirement eligible chief's, sending home those with documented misconduct or failing performance.

The Navy has imposed many reforms since: limiting alcohol sales on base, providing more bystander intervention training, introducing breathalyzer kits for shipboard checks. West also rolled out year-round CPO-365 training aimed to professionalize development of the first classes who will soon join the mess. future chiefs

And on the other end, the CPO-365 year round training for first class petty officer striving for the chief's mess puts great emphasis on accountability.

What both West and Stevens wants sailors to know is that chief's, even more than the sailors they work for, must should be held accountable because of their positions of responsibility. Sailors need to see their chief's being held accountable, too.

For about three years, roughly the same numbers of chiefs got in trouble, according to Stevens, before it began to gradually drop. the data was constant — about the same numbers of chiefs — roughly 60 got in trouble during each quarter of the year. Sixty percent of those were somehow alcohol-related.

But now Stevens is seeing dramatic drops. And now, in the last half a year, he's starting to see a decline in the numbers of chief's getting into trouble. The decline has been gradual, but steady he said. And This quarter, which will end March 30, has seen roughly half of the typically five dozen incidents typically reported each quarter. And The greatest drop has been in the areas of sexual assault claims and alcohol-fueled misbehaviorrelated offenses.

Stevens was reluctant to put numbers out off the cuff, but stated it's enough of a drop to call it a trend.

"So it's still too early to high five, right, but if you want something to happen you've got to do somethingand it can't be just changing the name of something — It can't be insignificant," he said, . "you've got to be willing to get out there and do what's hard and I tell you I couldn't be more pleased with what I'm seeing from our CPO mess right now, today, than I've ever been before."

Chief's training

Stevens decided to end chief's sundown announcement two years ago in his CPO-365 guidance announcing that the phrase induction two years ago and the misbehavior that too often the philosophy and with it any shenanigans that went with it. in what used to that often be called chief's initiation would be gone.

He has never viewed CPO-365 as break with tradition, instead, he's called it a logical progression that has turned what was once an ad-hoc and constantly changing practice in the fleet into a proven tough and professional training program through which white hats move into the khaki ranks.

"This is about progress," Stevens said. "The United States Navy went from sail to coal fire steam, to fuel oil steam, to nuclear powered steam. We went from bi-planes to single wing planes, from props to jets — ee have gone from CPO initiation to CPO transition to CPO induction to CPO 365 — it's called progress."

As a result, he's not interested in judging the past — only looking ahead, but he's also not judging the past, either.

Stevens says that initiation and later induction "was a process that we went through at the time — it was accepted by the CPO mess and you wanted to be a part of the team and you went through the process.

"I don't take anything away from my initiation, it was what it was for it's time," he said "But I'll tell you if you talk to new chief petty officer's today what they will tell you is the process is just as memorable for them. Because we change a process doesn't make it less important or less of a memory — It's just different that's all.

No more CPO-365 Changes

If you're looking for more chief's season edicts out of Stevens, this year when it comes to guidance for CPO-365 phase two, he says you'll be waiting a long time. He says that any change in an organization comes at a cost and that once instituting a change, leaders need to be ready for a little dip before they see any improvement.

"There's going to be a loss before there is a gain," he said. "And when we entered into CPO-365, there was a price tag that went with it. So you've got to ask yourself, when you go into this dip, if you can't come out …[at] a higher elevation than you went in, then it's not worth doing."

And he said that adding more change is dangerous, because it dig that hole deeper and is harder to recover from.

And When it comes to chief's training, he says after two years, things have settled out after two years. "But what I don't want to do is re-enter into another dip — I owe it to the chief's mess to let them put some money in the bank, and so I'm done with any significant changes with CPO 365."

He said one sign that CPO-365 isare taking root, he said, is that fewer alleged abuses are being reported each year out of chief's season, the time from when the selectees are announced in the summer to their mid-September pinning. in what is and what is not now during Chief's season, where routinelyallegations of abuses have arisen every year. But even that is changing.

"When you make a change like we did you're a fool if you think that there is not going to be some resistance to it — I mean I get it," he said. "What I'm most pleased about," Stevens said, "it's something we don't often talk about, [but] every incident that occurred — and I believe we received five [this past year] — ." Stevens said. "every one of them were stopped when the incident was occurring, stopped by a genuine chief that was a part of the training process and reported by that organization."

None of those incidents came to light from what he called "outside gotcha emails," as had happened frequently in years past. the past.

"Didn't get any of that this year, this past year," he said. "What I got was a command master chief calling their force or their fleet and saying, 'Hey we just had an incident this morning, this is what happened. We stopped the training; we are doing a stand down — my CO is holding this person accountable.' "

"I didn't have to get involved in any of it last year — the command stopped it — they recognized it and they took appropriate action, and I suspect that will continue to be the case until there is no more cases."

Fitness changes

Stevens has been part of the ongoing discussions with the Office of the Chief of Naval Personnel on upcoming changes to the Navy's body composition assessment. And he has a message to sailors:

A wider weight range for your height is not an excuse to let yourself go.

"What I do recognize is that often times, when people are given more latitude, they take more latitude, right?" he said. "So let's say that your maximum is 24 percent — I'm just throwing a number out there. You've got to be careful not to say, 'Hey, I was at 20 percent, now I can go to 24 percent; so where's that Big Mac?' Right?"

It's human nature to push the limits, he added, but sailors are still responsible for maintaining their fitness.

Officials have been tight-lipped about specifics of the upcoming policy change, but CNP Vice Adm. Bill Moran confirmed to Navy Times on March 3 that updates allowing higher maximum weights, more room to put on weight as a sailor ages, and updates to the tape test as a body fat measurement tool are on the table.

When asked whether another tool — such as skin-fold calipers or a scale that calculates body-mass index — could get more accurate measurements from sailors, Stevens agreed that there could be a better way, but standardizing one across the Navy is an issue.

"The challenge that we have as an expeditionary force is that whatever we do, we have to be able to do it anywhere in the world, right? In any environment, in any situation," he said.

The calipers, for example, are a complicated and somewhat intimate process, which could face resistance.

"Have you ever watched a YouTube video on how they do that?" he said. "And I assure you that sailors will say, 'You know they didn't pinch me in the right spot,' or 'It was too hard,' or 'It was too soft.' ... So I think that, yeah, there's probably some accuracy to it, but as many problems as you fix, you probably generate just as many."

For now, the discussions are focusing on the height-weight chart, which allows a maximum of 33 percent body fat for women under 40, and 34 percent for those over 40.

For men, it's 22 percent body fat for men under 40, and 24 percent over.

"Why do you stop at 23? What does it mean if you do 24 or 25?" Stevens said. "That's a good question. So that's why we've taken a look at it, and we want to use a reasonable approach."

Mark D. Faram is a former reporter for Navy Times. He was a senior writer covering personnel, cultural and historical issues. A nine-year active duty Navy veteran, Faram served from 1978 to 1987 as a Navy Diver and photographer.

Meghann Myers is the Pentagon bureau chief at Military Times. She covers operations, policy, personnel, leadership and other issues affecting service members.

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